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The Utah Space Association promotes change from the State of Utah via education and social awareness. Utah is a key state in forwarding space exploration, the home of several centers for technological development in computer and propulsion technology.

Bart Goddard writes:
>adamst@no.spam wrote:
>
>>>In the phrases "Scripture alone", "Faith alone", and "Grace
>>>alone", "alone" means "only".
>>
>> Either undersrtanding of the word 'alone' fails the consistency test,
>> since the Scriptures don't teach it!
>
>Who knows what you mean by "the consistency test"? It's certainly
>internally consistant in itself and it's certainly consistence with
>Scripture, since the very doctrine "Sola Scriptura" means "You
>have to be consistent with Scripture.

One cannot be "consistent with Scripture" and teach that Scripture is
the sole source of doctrine. The Scriptures themselves refute that
notion.

I know you disagree with the Evangelical Reformed position, but that is
the one being pushed here.



>> It can not possibly be the truth
>> since the Church existed BEFORE the NT was written.
>
>But not before the Gospel was preached. It idea of
>Sola Scriptura is that 1. The Church is, by definition,
>that place where the _word_ is preached and 2. The only
>sure source of the _word_ is Scripture. Of course the
>writers of Scipture are a source of Scripture.

Except that the Scripture itself says that the *oral* teachings are
not only valid, but gives them primacy AND insists that they be passed
on. THAT is what Holy Tradition is (in brief, anyway).

>>>Scripture is the only rule and norm for faith.
>>
>> Nowhere do the Scrptures say this. In fact, they refute it.
>
>Paul says not to deviate from the teaching he and the apostles
>give. He gets pretty heated about this. So, your refutation
>is refuted.

Hardly. Nowhere can you prove from Scritpure that by "Teaching of
the Apostles" he meant ONLY Scripture. In fact, Paul had to argue
in his letters that is writings carried the same authority as his
oral teachings.

>>>Faith is the only vehicle for grace.
>>
>>Did't Luther believe in Sacraments? And that grace came through them?
>>(else, what is a 'sacrament'?).
>
>"Vehicle" in a different sense. The Sacraments do you no good
>without faith (and in fact do you harm.) It's not that faith
>makes the Sacraments efficacious, but it is by faith that a
>believer receives the benefits. And, of course, the Sacraments
>create and strengthen faith.

Nice escape attempt...but in the end, it looks like you agree with what
I meant....

-Stephen
--
Space Age Cybernomad Stephen Adams
malchus842SP@AMgmail.com (remove SPAM to reply)

((( s.r.c.b-s is a moderat