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In article , lsenders@hotmail.com
says...
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>Matthew Johnson wrote:
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>> > You
>> >confuse the Greek notion of determinism or "system" with the
>biblical
>> >Christian idea of God's control of all things.
>>
>> You miss the point, Loren. It is you, with your slavery to Calvinism,
>who have
>> confused the Greek notion of determinism with the CHristian idea of
>God's
>> providential control. That is why you reduce us to automota.
>>
>I would suggest the take another look at the fathers.

I have, and that is how I know how wrong you are, Loren!

> This was their
>failure as well.

It was no _failure_. You simply misunderstood what they were doing.

> Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin Martyr,
>Athenagoras, Irenaeus, even Tertulian, the founder of Latin
>Chrisitanity, all failed at exactly the same point that you do,
>Matthew.

It was no 'failure', and no, it was not the same as what I am talking about. You
are simply returning like a dog to its vomit, to your old bad habit of putting
square pegs in round holes.

> And grant you, like these just mentioned, you hold to a
>committment to the Rule of Faith and you readily maintain the truth
>against heresy, yet like these men you seem to think of a general
>theism maintained by the same presuppositions of men who were not
>Christian and of Christianity as adding something to this general
>theism. And like Tertulian, great strides have been made in
>Trinitarian discussion, yet there remains to some extent a bounding to
>the principle of cosmological Logos theology.

What _are_ you talking about? You sound like you are hiding your two-cent ideas
behind 64-dollar words.

>> > You identify more with
>> >the non-Christian idea of indeterminism, namely, that of free will
>or
>> >human autonomy than the biblical view of man being created
>responsible.
>>
>> But what YOU call "the biblical view" is NOT. Again, if you would
>actually LOOK
>> at the Augustine citation, you would see how he explains that that
>> 'responsibility' in turn implies MAN HAS FREE WILL.
>>
>Again, one must distinquish between his earlier work and his later
>work.

But you yourself consistently REFUSE to do this. Haven't you even looked at the
date yet for the work of his I consistently quote? It was written during the
last 4 years of his life. I ahve NOT confused his earlier opinions.

>For instance, his Christian theology did not allow for either a
>non-Christian a priori or for a non-Christian a posteriori type of
>