80-55 Coalition for Rural America

Nonpartisan group of advocacy, policy and research organizations dedicated to strengthening rural America. Frequently asked questions, news, statistics, and how to help.

Alsace - United-States Association

Franco-American organization between Alsace, a French region, and America. Offers governmental and cultural exchanges, twinning activities, the Boston and Strasbourg sister city program.

Alsace - United-States Association

Franco-American organization between Alsace and America. Offers governmental and cultural exchanges, twinning activities, the Boston and Strasbourg sister city program.

America Tomorrow

Identifying needs that are not being met due to lack of funding, such as security for schools.

America's Helping Hands

Mission is to educate and promote awareness of volunteerism, and to raise funds for various charities in America.

American Institute for Conservation

U.S. national membership organization of conservation professionals dedicated to preserving the art and historic artifacts of our cultural heritage for future generations.

American Institute for Conservation (AIC)

National membership organization of conservation professionals dedicated to preserving the art and historic artifacts of America's cultural heritage for future generations.

Association Alsace États-Unis

L'Organisation d'amitié franco-américaine a pour but de promouvoir et de favoriser les échanges et les relations entre la région Alsace et les Etats-Unis. Présentation, actualités, le jumelage Boston Strasbourg, liens. Association franco-américain. Offers governmental and cultural exchanges, twinning activities, the Boston and Strasbourg sister city program.

Association Alsace États-Unis

L'Organisation d'amitié franco-américaine a pour but de promouvoir et de favoriser les échanges et les relations entre la région Alsace et les Etats-Unis. Présentation, actualités, le jumelage Boston Strasbourg, liens. Association franco-américain. Offers governmental and cultural exchanges, twinning activities, the Boston and Strasbourg sister city program.

Coalition on Human Needs

An alliance working together to promote public policies which address the needs of low-income and other vulnerable populations. The members include civil rights, religious, labor and professional organizations.

In article <123.26.10.05.614273000@srcbs.org>, Bart Goddard says...
>
>
>
>matthew_member@newsguy.com wrote:
>
>>>What's the difference between "influencing for our good"
>>>and "coercion for our good"?
>>
>> If you don't know the answer to this, Bart, then you were in no
>> position
>
>The important thing here is that Gary starts to see that
>most of his arguments are just rewording something
>unpalletable in order to make them more palletable.

That is not going to happen. For what you propose is by far more
"unpalletable[sic]". Gary sees this, you do not. And yet you upbraid _Gary_ for
being unseeing? Oh, the irony!

>There's this "Good God" in heaven, and yet all these
>babies are born with devastating diseases, or into
>abusive families, or into poverty. He's all powerful
>and all knowing, and yet these things happen. So
>what's the knee-jerk reaction? To say "God doesn't
>cause or will these things, but rather He merely
>_allows_ them to happen."

No, for most people who have "knee-jerk reactions", that is NOT "the knee-jerk
reaction".

>By using words of a different connotation, they make
>themselves feel better, but they haven't changed the
>facts or denotations.

It amazes me, Bart, that someone with an advanced graduate degree in such a
logical discipline, mathematics, can so arrogantly sweep aside an entire field
of a similarly logical discipline, philosophy, without giving it even a fraction
of the consideration it deserves. Yet this is _precisely_ what you have done
with your breezy and WRONG description of Theodicy, saying "by using words of a
different connotation, they make thmselves feel better".

But wait! What am I saying? You are a mathematician. I must have suppressed the
unpleasant memory of my past association with mathematicians that reminded me so
vividly so often that mathematicians all love the heights of arrogance more than
God.

No, Bart, that is NOT what Gary is doing, that is NOT what any of the many other
people grappling with the same question of Theodicy have done. You would know
this if you _really_ appreciated the work of Leibniz, who was justly more proud
of his introduction of Theodicy into Western Philosophy than of his invention of
Calculus.

>By changing "coercion" to "influence",
>Gary hasn't changed the meaning of his doctrine. It's
>just that "influence" sounds better to him.

No, that is not true. 'Coercion' and 'influence' really are different things.
Gary seems to know the difference. But he is at a loss for words to explain it.
This does not surprise me, since your equation of the two IS so shocking.

>> But then why am I not surprised? Oh