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wrf3@stablecross.com wrote:


>> > So now we have to believe in the DoIT to be saved?
>>
>> Where do you get that?
>>
> You claim that the statement "you are the Messiah the Son of the
> Living God" requires that one believe in the DoT to be saved.
> Otherwise, one "doesn't know Mom".

I think one of the troubles here is that by using the word
"doctrine" in "DoT", we are saying something intellectual
and cognitive. But by saying "believe" (at least when when
I use it) we don't necessarily mean that. ("Knowing Mom"
here is something an infant does.)

And specifically, in this case, "believe" is contrasted
with "confess". We confess the DoT. We believe in God.

Our churches use the phrase "We believe, teach and
confess that...", showing that these are not synonyms to us.

In this sense (of believe), the phrase "believe in the DoT"
doesn't make sense. It would be as if a child was more
attached to a statement about his mom than to his mom
herself. Statements don't give hugs, provide food and
warmth or safety. One doesn't put ones trust and faith
in a statement.

Rather, one expresses one's trust and faith _by means of_
a statement. Your confession tells something about your
faith, but it doesn't cause or effect our faith.

If a child confesses that some other lady is Mom, then
we know that there is something seriously wrong with
where he places his trust. (Especially if we know that
Mom is a good and loving mother.)

We don't say that "confessing the true Mom is required
for sonship", but rather that, given the ability of
rational thought and speech, a child who does not is
in a seriously dangerous state.


> But the phrase "Son of God" does not necessarily imply diety. When I
> asked you if it did, you gave me an answer that I couldn't make sense
> of in the current discussion. So I asked if now we also have to
> believe in the diety of Israel to be saved, insofar as Israel is a
> type of Christ, along with the DoT. Hence DoIT, where the "I" stands
> for Israel.

This seems like mere quibbling. The phrase "Son of God" is
certainly a title, and is not used for Israel.

Bart

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Matthew Johnson wrote:

> In article <090.46.18.05.248541000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...
>
> [snip]
>
> >> Any heresy, when it grows up, leads to damnation.
> >
> >Then we have no hope, do we?
>
> No, this does not follow, because we do not _have_ to let it grow up!

And