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"Bart Goddard" wrote in message
news:139.37.15.05.156563000@srcbs.org...
>
>
> gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >> Second, I don't see why your trap doesn't apply equally
> >> well to the free-willers.
>
>
> > Bart, I can see a lot of difference between me saying to you,
> > "Bart, I will give you everything if you believe me."
> > AND
> > "Bart, I've decided to kill. There is nothing you can do about
> > it."
> >
> > I can't quite see why it is so difficult for others to see what
> > I see to be obvious.
>
> I can't quite see what you can't see what you're doing here.
> There are positive and negative aspects to both sides, and
> you take the positive side of yours and compare it with
> the negative side of mine, expecting me to someone not
> notice.
>
> What if I write:
>
> "Bart, if you don't believe in Me, I'm not lifting a finger
> to help you."
> AND
> "Bart, I love you so much that I'm going to save you even
> if you fight against me."
> ?
>
> Ya' gotta play fair.

I believe that God loves all such that He seeks and endeavors
to save them. God asks, "What more could I have done?"

Isaiah 5:4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not
done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes,
brought it forth wild grapes?

The difference, as I see it, Bart, between us is that I believe God uses
persuasive means to save all. You believe He uses force to save the few.
That is OK. I believe that the God who could save all "against their wills,"
as Calvinism claims is possible, but does not do so, is not Omnibenevolent.

I see Isa 5:4 to indicate that God does ALL He can justly do to save all.

All of us "fight against God." But only some continue the fight till death.
My spirit will not always strive with man.

> > So God knows that some He creates will refuse His offer
> > of mercy. So What? They could have accepted it.
>
> And the child could have heeded his parents' advice
> not to play in the highway. So that relieve the
> parents of responsibility?

I don't agree with your comparison. The God of Calvinism
pushes the child into oncomming traffic! This is a more
correct comparison.

> Do with think they are
> "good" parents when all they did was talk and not
> act? You haven't addressed this yet. God created
> them and _knew while creating them_ that they would
> end up in hell, no question. How can you think such
> a God is any less a monster?

The God of Calvinism creates the Child so the he CANNOT
obey his parents! This is a more correct