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Bob Felts wrote:
> Gary McNees wrote:
>
>
>>Bob Felts wrote:
>>
>>>Gary McNees wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>But I think I see your point. Is it your point that every time you sin,
>>>>you have an excuse because it is not you doing it, but "sin which dwells
>>>>in you?"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>There is no excuse for it. But it is "sin which dwells in me".
>>
>>Were you "determined" to do it by God? Or could you have refrained from
>>doing it?
>>
>
>
> We can't know the answer to that except in hindsight.

Well, then let me ask, what about the future sin.
Do you control whether you sin or not?
Or does God?

Or some other answer?

Determinism is false.

Gary

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Tracy Hall wrote:

>
> Loren, given the context, do you mean to imply that those who believe
> in free will are as apostate as those who participate in the terrible
> behaviors listed here by Paul, that those who believe in free will are
> people who "resist the truth," have "corrupt minds," and are "reprobate
> concerning the faith?"
>
Look, too often people think that just because an individual
participates in a denomination which has serious doctrinal issues, that
they themselves are equally in error. Personally, I have real issues
with the RC version of salvation. In reality, most RC's place their
faith in the out spread wings of the RCC, not in Christ. It is
completely impersonal in relationship with Christ. But there are those
within the RCC who have wonderful relationship's with the Lord. These
things must be held separate.

As for the theology of "free will," yes, I find the system to be
anti-Biblical, therefore, as you say, apostate. But just because an
individual believes in what he defines "free will," does not
necessitate apostacy. My argument is against theological systems which
try to maintain that man is free after the fall. Not only is the
doctrine counter logical to its own claims when examined, it places man
right back into that very same mentality which the Jewish leaders of
Jesus' day had. NO ONE kept the Law. NO ONE ever has or ever will,
except Jesus who was born without a fallen sin nature. The Law reveals
sin. It provides no escape from it. Only the grace of God, through
the regenerative act of the Spirit in life the individual provides a
new orientation, a new capacity to love God apart from self. Apart
from regeneration, all men are self oriented, therefore they are
neither "free" nor capable of good works.

> Paul was warning Timothy of the apostasy th