In article <3CDE6265-0C07-3CEB-80AE-154B89D16A98@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...

>Matthew Johnson wrote:

>> In article
>> <02278CC9-BA81-CA32-DB38-4774EC95326A@srcbs.org>, Bob
>> Felts says...

>> >Gary wrote:

>> >> "Bob Felts" wrote in message
>> >> news:153.21.08.05.277551000@srcbs.org...

>> >> > Gary McNees wrote:

>> >> Bob Felts said: "So there are some things that God
>> >> _cannot_ will, therefore His will isn't free."

>> >> Since this is what Bob means when he says "free will,"
>> >> it is plain why there is so much confusion and arguing
>> >> about free will.

>> >> Two points:

>> >> 1) God cannot lie. So this is something God cannot do.

>> >> 2) You cannot fly to the moon (without any machine).
>> >> Hence you have no "free will."

>> >> Such reasoning it so ludicrous that it is not worthy
>> >> of response.

>> >If that were the argument being made, I would agree with
>> >you. But you don't understand what is being said.

>> Is that so?

>Yes.

No, it is not so. His illustration of the false dogma you
and Bart hold in common was exact and apt. The only error
was in attribution of who said exactly what words.

>> He quoted you directly. Where did I say what was in "2"?

That is irrelevant.

>> Or do you deny having said that "His will isn't free"?

>I do not deny having said that God doesn't have free will.

Then you have no grounds for claiming that Gary did not
understand what was being said. For his attribution was
exactly correct.

>> >Making a choice is a mental action. Flying to the moon
>> >is a physical action. You are equating apples with
>> >oranges when you (wrongly) compare the two.

>> No, he is doing no such thing.

>Choosing to lie and flying to the moon are superfically two
>different things.

Not so. The differences are very significant. The difference
is that one is "in our power" and the other is clearly not.

> One could fly to the moon if one could, by an act of the will,
>change one's nature.

No, it has NOTHING to do with changing one's nature. Did
Neil Armstrong's nature change?

> Can a man change his nature by willing it?

It depends on the change you are discussing.

>> There is an all-important distinction between 'wish' and
>> 'will'. You can _wish_ to do what is physically
>> impossible, but you cannot _will_ it. Nor can you choose
>> it.

>Even if I were to grant you your point, what does this have
>to do with the discussion?

Everything. Until you understand this distinction, you
can