Association of RV Parks and Campgrounds

Includes camp search and tips.

Big Bear Adventures

Includes information about their services.

Charlton Park Village Museum and Recreation area

Contains information about this park near Hastings.

Chip-In's Island Resort and Casino

Vegas-style gaming. Event schedule and lodging information.

Detroit's Greektown Casino

Features trip planner, dining, and casino information.

Father Marquette National Memorial

Includes travel, tour and events information.

Fayette Historic Townsite

Includes travel, tour and events information.

Fishing Michigan's Upper Peninsula Home Page

Features fishing and environment reports.

Fort Wilkins Historic Complex

Includes travel, tour and events information.

Frankenmuth Bavarian Inn Restaurant

Includes menu, specials, and restaurant facts.

{{ Followups set to talk.origins, per the Charter. -sma }}

Bob Felts wrote:

> > >
> > IF the laws are not constant then there is no standard left.
>
> Not necessarily. There may be a "meta" law, with which we aren't yet
> familiar, which explains how current laws/constants are changing.
>
At the very best, that is an argument from silence. However, all
science is predicated on the fact that if something can be reproduced,
then there is a presumption of continuity.
>
> > The problem is, all men operate under the Christian presupposition
- that
> > the universe is created, orderly and has providential care behind
it.
>
> All men? Hardly.
>
Yes, all men. It is impossible to do otherwise. All men know there is
a God, whether they admit it to themselves or not. Just take a field
trip down through history and you will see a parade of ideas which all
have the presupposition that there is something which stands behind the
curtain. Much of Platoian and Aristolian philosophy operates off of
this premise. In fact it is their conclusion even though they end up
with a false view of the actual reality.
>
> > No. Of course this is never confessed or admitted. But how could
it be
> > otherwise? Science *presumes* order. Where does order come from?
>
> Science _observes_ order. Science can say nothing about the origin
of
> the order.
>
"Science" spews "origin" on every level. It almost speaks of nothing
else in your universities and public television. It is the underlying
proposition -further indoctrinate their doctrine on origins. Just look
at your average grade school "science" books.

Now technically, you are correct. But equally, technically science
does presume that the universe is ordered. Einstein did not believe in
a personal god, his god was a naturalistic order, yet he refused any
presupposition other than an orderly universe.
> >
> > The moderator may wish to end this thread, but it is a thread which
he
> > himself started when he dismissed the literal interpretation of the
> > Genesis record.
>
> Good for him. A literal interpretation of Genesis 1 & 2 doesn't
stand
> up to rigorous scrutiny.
>
This is "science" not saying anything about origin? Gee just a couple
of points prior you were refusing what you here conclude. Only via
blind religious presumption can you deny the literal aspect of not only
Gen 1-3 but Gen 6 as well.
> >
> > I sought not to discuss the scientific creationist answers to
evolutionary
> > objections. I sought to illustrate the fact that todays science is
now
> > producing varied reports which substantiate a created universe in
the tim