ClickCity Guide for Michigan

Expansive database for information on the state of Michigan.

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Michigan Travel Ideas

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State of Michigan Official Tourism Site

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Thumb's Up! Michigan

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Upper and Lower Michigan Travel

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On Mon, 30 May 2005 05:48:15 +0000 (UTC), wrf3@stablecross.com (Bob
Felts) wrote:

>
>
>Matthew Johnson wrote:
>
>> In article <144.04.20.05.537140000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...
>>
>> >Matthew Johnson ; wrote:
>>
>> >> In article <143.48.18.05.144965000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...
>>
>> >> >Gary McNees wrote:
>>
>> >> >> "Bob Felts" wrote in message
>> >> >> news:137.40.05.05.508773000@srcbs.org...
>>

>
>I'm not equivocating. Just as, in the natural world, the same phenomena
>looks different when viewed at at different levels, the same thing
>happens in the supernatural world. Or consider a play, movie, or book.
>Suppose an author creates a world where people are to do "X". But the
>author creates a character that refuses to do "X". Is this character
>obeying or resisting the author's will?
>


The book analogy is a poor one. The problem is that those characters
do not have the ability to make a choice. They can be protrayed by
the author as refusing to do "X" or agreeing to do "X". But that is
because the author wills it to be so. No matter what happens in the
plot, the character will always do as the author wills it to do.
There is no possiblity of them ever resisting the author's will.

In the spiritual domain, it is possible to resist God's will and it is
possible to resist God's will.
>> >You claim this, because you cannot see how man can be responsible
>> >unless he is free.
>>
>> Just as I cannot see how a number can be both rational and irrational.
>>
>
>Apples and oranges. Morality is not mathematics. The only reason you
>won't accept an answer such as "man is responsible by divine fiat" is
>because you don't think this is good. But you aren't the measure of
>what is good.
>
>> >I have never made any other claim than "man is responsible for his
>> >actions".
>>
>> No, you _do_ make more claim than that: you claim that man is
>> responsible by divine fiat. But this is where you are wrong.
>>
>
>It isn't because man is free. If you can come up with a third way, I'll
>be more than happy to listen.
>
>> >At issue is why is man responsible? Is he responsible because he
>> >is allegedly free (your position) or is he responsible by divine fiat
>> >(my position), or for some other reason?
>>



Bob, if man is responsible for his actions only because God declared
him to be so,

>
>1, Paul presents the Gospel in Romans 1-8. Paul writes Romans 9 t