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gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:


> You say, "I know I am saved because Christ died for me."
>
> I say, "I know I am saved because God told me that Christ died for
> me."
>
> In your case, you say it is not by works, but in my case you say
> it is by works. This does not make any sense to me.

This is not "why I know" but "why am I saved". Are
you saved because Christ died for you or because you
"know" that Christ died for you?

> I believe that in your sentence is hidden faith.

It's not hidden, it's a statement of faith. But my
sentence doesn't say that my faith is the cause of my
salvation.


>> I don't care if you believe
>> in salvation by works, I'm just bothered that you don't
>> admit it.
>
> I deny that I believe in salvation by works.
> But I would affirm that you believe that man is
> saved by works. This is the NECESSARY consequence
> of the fact that you believe that salvation can
> be lost.

When did I ever say that salvation can be lost? Heck,
_you're_ the one who says we have free will, not me.


>> You haven't managed to come up with an argument that explains
>> your internally contradictory sentences like:
>>
>> 1. God controls everything, but He doesn't control sin.
>
> Controlling sin and causing sin are not the same.

But you've made it quite clear that you think God causes
sin. If there's some difference here, you should be able
to explain it.


>> 2. After we show God we're worthy, He grants us salvation.
>
> Never said this. I said just the opposite in other words.
> Saving faith is empty of worthiness.

To have saving faith is a quality. Those who have it,
God saves _on the basis of them having it_ (in your system.)
It's something to boast about.

Bart

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>Not an an ambassador, not an angel, BUT THE LORD HIMSELF SAVED >THEM
> because He loved them and had mercy on them. (Isa 63:9LXX)

quoting the LXX to prove a doctrine is inconclusive.

"IN all their affliction He was afflicted, and the angel of his
presence saved them. In His love and mercy he received them..." (Isaiah
63:9 NAS)

Isa 63:9In all their affliction He was afflicted , And the angel of His
presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And
He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.

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