In article <105.38.20.05.259952000@srcbs.org>, Gary McNees says...
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>Ethan Metsger wrote:
>> Gary McNees wrote:
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>>>Why o why do people like so much to contradict Scripture?
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>>>Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto
>>>your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give
>>>good things to them that ask him?
>>>
>>>Gary
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>> Have you read, "The plowing of the wicked is sin?" or "The sacrifice of the
>> wicked is an abomination?" Both of these are, in principle, good works; the
>> former feeds the family (fathers give their children bread) and the latter
>> constitutes worship. But both are decried as _evil_.
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>Argue with Christ, not me. He said it, not me.

What do you mean? Gary was quoting Proverbs, not the Gospel or the Torah.

It sounds more than a little extreme to claim that the sayings of Proverbs come
from the mouth of Christ.

>> Gary, the point that is made in Scripture is that good deeds aren't good
>> unless the person who does them is regenerate.
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>Where does it say that even the deeds of the regenerate are good?

Several places. Proverbs chapter 11 comes to mind, for example.

Out of this one chapter, we have several proverbs that are hard to understand
unless they mean _exactly_ that! And when all read together, the conclusion
becomes unavoidable: the good deeds of the righteous are good.

A few such verses:

The wicked work unreliable deeds;
but he who sows righteousness works a true reward (Prv 11:18)

Righteousness leads to life;
but he who pursues evil [pursues] his own death (Prv 11:19)

The perverse-hearted are an abomination before the LORD;
but the blameless in their paths are pleasing to Him (Prv 11:20)

The desire of the righteous is only good;
but the expectation of the wicked is wrath (Prv 11:23)

From the fruit of his own mouth, a man shall be filled with good;
and the reward for every man is from the works of his own hands (Prv 12:14)

This last is the real clincher.

>I agree with Augustine that even our best deeds are filled with sin,
>and only acceptable because God sees them through Christ.
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>Good is used in different ways in Scripture. As is righteous, and
>just. (Just ask Matthew J.)
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>> This is why our righteousness
>> is as filthy rags.
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>I agree, and this seems to contradict what you just said above,
>e.g., good deeds aren't good unless the person who does them is regenerate.
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>> It is not that we don't do things that are in principle
>> good--and I don't think any Calvinist you ever talk to would say
>> otherwise--but the simple fact t