"Stephen M. Adams" wrote in message
news:C00BD485-AD11-90FE-20CF-B787F7F95084@srcbs.org...
> "Gary" writes:
> >"Stephen M. Adams" wrote:
> >> "Gary McNees" writes:
> >>
> >> The problem comes in that nothing that we currently have was written
> >> down until long after Jesus died and rose from the dead. Even the
> >> most conservative dating puts Mark earliest, some time in the 60's,
> >> with John in the 90's. More likely are around 70 to 110. And the
> >> extant copies of those (that are reasonably intact) are much later.
> >>
> >> If you claim to trust the Scriptures, then you must put your trust
> >> in those who wrote them much later, those who preserved and copied
> >> those writings, and those who compiled the canon.
> >>
> >Steve, sorry for the long delay. I have been very busy with other
> >things.
>
> No problem. I have done the same myself in the past.
>
> >I guess I have a different view of Scripture and all other writings.
> >
> >Although it is true that some of the books of the NT were written
> >some time "after the fact," I take it that God "brought to their
> >remembrance" the truth. (E.g.. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which
> >is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall
> >teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
> >whatsoever I have said unto you.)
> >
> >I take this to be a promise to those who actually wrote the Bible, the
NT.
>
> This was a promise to all the Apostles - not just the ones that have
> Scripture attributed to them.
>
> >Since the various "church fathers" did not agree on all that they taught,
I
> >believe that they were not so "inspired" as were the writers of the NT.
>
> It's the consensus of the Fathers - not any individual Father...

Thanks for the response Steve.

Since I don't believe that "the fathers" even by "consensus" are infallible,
I disagree.

But they certainly are vastly superior to Calvin and Luther!
I cannot see why the fact that Calvin and Luther started teaching
such new doctrine, which was not taught by the preceding
church at all (there could be a few minor exceptions), that supposed
"reformed" Calvinistic believers just buy into their "new" teachings!

Only Augustine is cited, and that, according to Matthew, out of
context to support their peculiar doctrines of election and predestination.

Since there were some who were taught by the Apostles, and even
Jesus Himself who subsequently started teaching false doctrine, I
cannot buy into the church fathers being the sta