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Gary wrote:

> > >
> > > Norman Geisler entitled "Chosen But Free."
> > >
> > By his own admission he clearly stands on the side of moderate
> > Calvinism.
>
> Loren, other Calvinists I know who are familiar with Geisler's work,
> do not accept his "moderate Calvinism" as being any kind of Calvinism.
>
I suggest you read the book reviews in Cavinistic theological journals
(plural) for a more informed opinion.
>
> > Some of the subjects he discusses in the appendixes are
> > these: Was Calvin a Calvinist? The Origins of Extreme Calvinism; Is
> > Faith a Gift Only to the Elect? Double Predestination; Is Regeneration
> > Prior to Faith.
>
> Geisler gives his moderate "five points," and every one of them, except
> perhaps the last, would, I think be accepted by Matthew and Steve!
>
What, that regeneration occurs prior to faith? I doubt they accept the
last 3, but will let them speak for themselves.
>
> That is how far away they are from the five points of TULIP as taught
> by real "Calvinism."
>
> Here is a list of them as given by Geisler:
>
> T- Total depravity is amply supported by Scripture in the moderate Calvinist
> sense. All the Scriptures used by extreme Calvinists are accepted by moder
> Calvinists; the only difference is that moderates insist that being "dead"
> in sin does not mean that unsaved people cannot understand and RECIEVE the
> truth of the gospel as the Spirit of God works on their hearts. That is, it
> does not in effect erase the image of God (but only effaces it.) [Man can
> and often does resist this working of God on their hearts.]
>
Here is where you illustrate a failure to correctly represent main
stream Calvinism. I would suggest you read VanTil's account or
Warfield's or Bruce's works. I would also suggest you read the
commentary of the writers of the WCF.
>
> U- Unconditional Election is also held by moderate Calvinists. It is
> unconditional from the standpoint of the Giver, even though there is one
> condition for the receiver - faith.
>
> [Regeneration FOLLOWS faith!]
>
This cannot be both logically and biblically. Paul clearly admonishes
anyone thinking that they can come to faith apart from prior
regeneration. This is the very basis of why there is no room for
boasting. Christ as well taught just this very thing in the evening
garden conversation with Nicodemus.
>
> L- Limited atonement is affirmed by moderate Calvinists in the sense that it
> is limited in its APPLICATION. That is, although redemption was purchased fo
> r all and is AVAILABLE to all, nonetheless, it will only be APPLIED to those
> whom God chose from all eternity