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Matthew Johnson wrote:
> In article , Tracy Hall
says...
>
> >
> >However, in teaching our need for Christ's atonement, Paul taught
that
> >all have sinned. (Rom. 3:10, 23; 5:12).
>
> But who _as_ this 'all' he referred to? Please pay more attention to
the
> original context of the passages Paul cited.

Context?
1:19-1:32 Gentile -condemned
2:1-29 Jew -condemned
conclusion:
3:10-18 all men -condemned

Context of 3:23 - all men fell in Adam

"death spread to all men because all sinned" (5:12)
BTW, "sinned" is active, not passive.

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>If you would simply take the time to look at a Lexicon at the very
>least, or if you feel up to it, a word study reference such as TDNT,
>you'd see that the word means simply, "to see.", "to look" "eye
>witness" etc.

WRONG. There is more to it. The word at Matthew 17:9 is "horama" in
Greek, which means according to Strong's "from "horao"; something gazed
at, i.e. a spectacle (espec. supernatural.): sight, vision. So please,
make me laugh, at complain about Strong's concordance

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In article <155.39.06.05.456586000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...

>Matthew Johnson wrote:

>> In article <153.21.08.05.919325000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...


>> >But you have God giving free will to someone who He knows will misuse it
>> >to cause misery, destruction, and death.
>> >
>> >So how do you justify this?
>>
>> Why are you asking him to _justify_ it, when _neither_ of you really believe
>> that man can justify God?
>
>Because one of the frequent complaints of Calvinism is that its "god" is
>really demonic because of the notion that He creates vessels of wrath
>devoted to destruction.

You have not answered the question.

>He needs to see that the "free-will granting god" likewise has a PR
>problem.

But this is still quite beside the point. We _know_ this, even though
we think "PR problem" is a pretty poor misnomer. But this "PR problem"
was _extensively_ treated by St. Augustine in his Enchiridion,
St. Basil in his "That God is not the Cause of Evil" and others. But
whenever I try to bring up their treatment, you whine and complain
because they do NOT share your disastrous Calvinist suppositions.

>Therefore, the "no free will" position cannot be rejected simply
>because it offends one's sensibilities -- because the "free will"
>position is