Access Flint

Source of local Flint information including news, weather, sports, and local government.

Access Flint

Describes all the features of living in Flint, Michigan. Get access to important local information, city, county, government, entertainment, dining, shopping and services all at the click of a button. A complete source for local information online 24 hours a day.

Genesee County

Information on government offices, public safety, courts, employment, and the community.

Genesee County Bar Association

Programs and services of the Genesee County Bar Association with links to legal topics.

Genesee County Clerk

Clerk office offers forms in downloadable format, vital records, and genealogy research information.

Genesee County Parks and Recreation Commission

Featuring Crossroads Village, Huckleberry Railroad, Geneseee Belle riverboat and other Genesee County Parks.

Genesee County Road Commission

Provides and maintains a safe, cost efficient and quality county road system for the motorists in Genesee County.

Genesee County, Michigan - InfoMI

Area history, photos, business listings, churches, organizations, and events.

Grand Blanc Charter Township, Genesee County

Gary McNees wrote:

> "Bob Felts" wrote in message
> news:143.07.06.05.942493000@srcbs.org...
> >
> >
> > Gary McNees wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >
> > > No. This is NOT voluntarism. This is essentialism. The Calvinist
> > > believes in voluntarism. That is, the Calvinist God could say that
> > > evil is good, and it would then be good.
> >
> > If He says that it's good, then it isn't evil. God is the sole arbiter
> > of what is good and what is evil.
>
> Very funny. God says that men like you do exactly this.

How endearing.

> Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put
> darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and
> sweet for bitter!
>

So, tell me, how do you go from my statement that "God is the sole
arbiter of what is good and evil" to my allegedly saying that "evil is
good, and good is evil"?

> God does not and cannot just say anything at all.

a) Where did I say that He did? Since you've slandered me to this
extent, put up or shut up.
b) Did you notice that you just claimed that God Himself doesn't have
free will?

> God cannot lie. But your god can lie.

Where did I say that?

> And on top of that then define that lying is good.
>

If God _could_ lie, then it would be good. Do you understand the
difference between "could" and "would"?

> > > The God of the Bible cannot say that evil is good, for that would be
> > > against His nature.
> > >
> > > At least, Bob, try to get the definitions of voluntarism and
> > > essentialism correct.
> >
> > Try this thought experiment. Suppose that you woke up one morning and
> > everything had "flipped". Today you find out that God says is good what
> > you had previously thought was evil. Is it good?
>
> This experiment is impossible. We know what a lie is, don't we?

This though experiment isn't impossible, since we have an existence
proof.

And, yes, we know what a lie is. The question is, is it good or evil?
The moral judgmenet is not the same as the act. And you should be able
to reason about the following proposition: "if God _could_ lie, then
that lie would be good".

>
> The problem is that you have already done this "thought experiment," and
> come out believing that the true god can indeed define that evil is good,
> and good evil, since this is the very essence of Calvinism.

The only way you can defend this statement is either:
a) admit you don't know what you're talking about, or