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Stephen M. Adams wrote:

> Bart Goddard writes:
> >adamst@no.spam wrote:
> >
> >> Are you admitting, then, that 'faith without works is dead' and that
> >> such workless faith can not save? In other words, there is no salvation
> >> without faith AND works?
> >>
> >> That is quite clearly what James says.
> >
> >No, you're not being clear here. The distinction between
> >"Faith alone" (Salvation comes only through faith) and
> >"Faith alone" (Faith is never by itself, but is accompanied
> >by works) is being blurred. God is in the details, and the
> >details here are the prepositions. Does "by" mean "by
> >means of" or "next to"?
> >
> >The issue here is whether James is saying that works accomplish
> >some portion of salvation or that saving faith is always
> >accompanies by works.
>
> Let me ask this - since you seem to agree that works will always
> accompany saving faith, are those works *voluntary*?

Yes. A goat that has been transformed into a sheep will act according
to its new sheep nature.

What a goat cannot do is transform itself into a sheep, either by will
or deed. That change must come from above.

> Can man fail or refuse to do them??

Sure. While we have been transformed, our transformation is not yet
complete.

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Sarah Kanary wrote:

> "Bob Felts" wrote in message
> news:100.24.19.05.716476000@srcbs.org...
>
> >> and in my opinion so was Jesus created before Gen.1:1 (Rev. 3:14)
> >
> > When I responded earlier, I mentioned that I didn't see how this verse
> > supported this conclusion. But I was looking at it in the NIV and have
> > now read it in several other versions as well as the Greek. It
> > absolutely does not mean "the first created thing". It does mean "that
> > which started God's creation."
>
> Please give another Scriptural example where 'the beginning of' something
> was not also part of that something. From the LXX or NT.

John 1:1-3. The Logos, through which everything was created, is not
itself a part of that creation.

The beginning of a book is not a part of the book -- it is the story
that is first in the mind of the author.

[...]

> >
> > First, John 1:3 says, "All things were made through him and without him
> > not one thing came into being."
>
> The word that some translate 'made' here is the Greek word 'ginomai'.

Sarah, I can read the Gre