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In article <182.44.11.05.768823000@srcbs.org>, Paul Chapman says...
>
>On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:53:30 +0000 (UTC), Matthew Johnson wrote:

>[snip]

>>>>>The Sadducees denied there was any ressurection.(Luke
>>>>>20:27) Jesus spoke those words to show "that the dead
>>>>>are raised" (Luke 20:37).

>>>> You miss the point. By speaking those words, he proved
>>>> _MORE_ than "that the dead are raised". He proved that
>>>> the reposed saints are still, in some important sense
>>>> of the word, alive.

>>>Yes, but not in the sense you make it.

>> No, it really IS in the sense I make it.

>No, it is not.

Yes, it is. Are you having fun now with this "yes it is",
"no it isn't" exchange?

>> [snip]

>>>One can not be raised unless he is first DEAD. If he is
>>>ALIVE then he can not be subject to the resurrection, and
>>>therefore can not be said to "rise".

>> How can you not see that this is unsatisfactory? For
>> Christ called Abraham ALIVE.

>No, Jesus said, "for to him (God) all are alive". Only if
>you delete "to him" will the text say what your trying to
>make it say.

Not so. Abraham is alive. The addition of "to him" does not
change that. Not to mention the choice of "to him" for a
simple dative is questionable.

And please don't try to dimiss this as mere quibbling: for
the native speaker of Koine Greek, Blessed Theophylact,
reads it as " before God", not "to God". And this same
Theophylact confirms what I have been trying to explain to
you, that The Lord refutes much more than the immediate
error of the Sadducees (that there is no resurrection),
saying:

The Sadducees, in their inventive fictions, relying on a
weak foundation, disbelieved the Resurrection. Supposing
that after the Resurrection, we would live a fleshly
life, they were, naturally, confused. For this reason,
laughing at the teaching of the Resurrection as
ridiculous, they invented this irrational fable. _But the
Lord refutes their foundation_ and declares that there
there is no fleshly life. And together with this weak
foundation and supposition he sweeps aside their
teaching, saying that they err greatly and pervert the
sense of Scripture. ... God said to Moses out of the
burning bush "I am the God of Abraham..." If the
Patriarchs were completely destroyed and were not living
before God in the hope of Resurrection, he would have
said not "I am" but "I was". For we normally say, about a
thing destroyed or lost, that "I _was_ its
owner/master". But as it is, he says "I am", he shows
that He is the Lord and God of