wynfranc@yahoo.com wrote:

> What I do not believe in is that God will eternally torture someone
> FOREVER as punishment for his wicked life on earth. I do believe
> though in ETERNAL PUNISHMENT as Matthew 25:46 stated but not the kind
> of punishment which is ETERNAL TORTURE. The eternal punishment for
> the wicked is eternal cutting off, destruction and they will be
> brought to nothing without a prospect of resurrection. They are not
> alive in that state nor have consciousness.

Being cut off from God IS eternal torture and the worst possible sort.

As to "consciousness", there are two problems here. It is wrong for
us to assume that there are only two states of consciousness: "Ours" and
"Un." Comatose patients apparently have some sort of consciousness in
their state of unconsciousness. Who knows what sort of "mind" either a
saved or a damned person might have? Are we comatose or asleep compared
to an angel? Or is an angel so similar to a pre-programmed robot that
we wouldn't consider it to be conscious, even though it could be us at
chess? If the rocks and stones could sing, do they have some weird
but earthy sort of consciousness?

Certainly, we expect that the thing which survives in Hell is not
quite like the human we see on earth. Humans on earth have all
sorts of traits and blessings which we expect to be removed when
God completely abandons them (e.b., intelligence, reason, health,
e.g.)

But Scripture indicates that _something_ suffers. This is the "flame
that never goes out" and "their worm will never die."

To support your assertions, you need Scripture to say two things:
1. That suffering in the afterlife is finite and 2. When the
suffering is over, God puts the soul out of its misery.

I don't think you'll find any support for these ideas.




> if you have consciousness you are not completely dead,

That assumes a very secular definition of the word "dead".


> Notice that the dead have no conciousness.

Not as we know and experience "consciousness", but Ezekial's
dead bones were "conscious" enough to hear Ezekial's preaching.

We don't think of the sea as being conscious, but Jesus still
_spoke_ to it and it obeyed. All of God's creation listens to
Him when He speaks.

Bart

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In article <180.02.20.05.765783000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...

>Matthew Johnson wrote:

>> In article <178.41.13.05.