gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:

>>>>>God did NOT cause Judas to betray Jesus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do you have any basis for that last statement? We
>>>>don't know what God will is.
>>>
>>>Well, we do know what God has revealed concerning
>>>His will.
>>
>>
>> But we don't know _all_ of God's will, and specifically,
>> you still don't have any evidence that God did not
>> will Judas to betray Jesus.
>
> But what HE has revealed we do know.

You made the statement "God did NOT cause Judas to
betray Jesus." Show me where God revealed this to you.
So what if God revealed something else to you. What
has He said about Judas? You have to keep adding
to Scripture to support your doctrine.


> We know that He does not
> "secretly" will the opposite of what He has told us He wills.

How do we know that? There are lots of paradoxes in Scripture.
It's not a matter of "willing the opposite", but of human
minds not being able to resolve the paradox.

And again, how do you know that? You're adding to Scripture
again.

> And what I meant about Him "secretly" willing something other than He
> has said, I was referring to: Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in
> secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of
> Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare
> things that are right.
>
> Thus the Lord tells us specifically that HE DOES NOT SECRETLY will the
> opposite of what HE has revealed!

No, it just says that His revelation is plain. It says nothing
about that which He has not revealed. (And surely you're not
saying that God has revealed everything. So there must be some
secrets.)




> God Himself would not consider it
> just to create people to damn them, where they have no choice in the
> matter.

Whenever someone says "God would" or "God would not", he's
doing nothing but speculating. The bit about the potter and
the clay gainsays this "rule" you just concocted.

Rom 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his
power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath
prepared for destruction?


> He is malevolent. To
> created billions who have no free will,

Our wills are what got us into so much trouble. What
would be so malevolent in reigning in such a destructive
force?

> God tells us that HE is not the way you seem to
> suggest. God does not tell us that He loves us, and secretly hate us.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but
it isn't from Scripture. At no point does he say that He
is not the way I suggest. OTOH, He does say both tha