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Gary McNees wrote:
> wrote in message
> news:130.07.10.05.180296000@srcbs.org...
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary McNees wrote:
> snip
> > > > > The T for Calvinism means Total Inability.
> > > >
> > > > OK. So man is impotent to save himself!
> > >
> > > Even all Arminians believe this. (I am not an Arminian)
> >
> > That is OK. I am not much on labels.
> >
> > > > I have not found a way to
> > > > "save" myself even while I am alive and can do things. I
expect to
> > be
> > > > even more impotent when my body is put in the ground.
> > >
> > > Of course, only God saves.
> >
> > You got it!
> >
> > > >
> > > > > All men are so depraved
> > > > > that they cannot receive Christ by faith
> > > >
> > > > I believe we can with God's help, I believe that, for God all
> > things
> > > > are possible.
> > >
> > > Again, agreed. But the ESSENSE of Calvinism is that God
> > > MUST first regenerate man, and then the man must believe.
> > > >
> > > > > even under the drawing of God.
> > > >
> > > > Wait a minute, I have never heard that from a Calvinist. I
think
> > that
> > > > is what some non-Calvinist think Calvinist believe. I, a
> > Calvinist,
> > > > think that God's "drawing" grace is always effective, even
> > > > irresistible!
> > >
> > > This IS THE problem. God says that He draws all men.
> >
> > OK. That is good.
>
> Most Calvinists I have discoursed with, deny this. They claim
> that He draws only the elect. They change this verse to say,
>
> "John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all
> [KINDS OF] men unto me.
>
> Rather than what God actually said:
>
> John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men
unto
> me.
>
> > > Hence your, IRRESISTABLE drawing contradicts this verse, for God
> > > says ALL men are drawn, but it is quite evident that ALL do not
come
> > to
> > > Christ.
> >
> > How do you know that?
>
> Are you asking "How do I know that not all men come to Christ?"

Yes, that was what I had in mind. It was a question not a
contradiction. I know there is support for that statement in scripture.
Therefore, that statement must be correct. It is an interesting way of
looking at things. I guess I wanted more comments about what you
understand that teaching implies.

Also, I was thinking about 1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die,
so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

So, I guess All are drawn, and even if it is quite evident that ALL do
not come to Christ, still ALL shall be made alive. So it looks like
that their not comin