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In article <151.42.08.05.578976000@srcbs.org>, Gary McNees says...
>
>"Matthew Johnson" wrote in message
>news:150.46.00.05.892448000@srcbs.org...

[snip]
>I'm not too sure that either of theim would agree with this.
>But I am tired of arguing with them. Its like beating one's
>head against the wall, as it were.

Yes, it is. But I still believe you will find it less frustrating if you write
shorter posts, and more to the point. Remember: it was one of your fellow
Protestants who said, "Brevity is the soul of wit"!

[snip]

>> That is certainly not the way I read Gary's words. Are you deliberately
>> introducing a straw-man, or are you just not reading carefully enough
>before you
>> reply?
>
>You are reading me correctly, Matthew. But this is only one such
>incident where I am lied about.

I know. Both Felts and Bart resort to this dirty trick far, far too often.

>God works ALL things according to the council of His will. Nothing
>happens that God has not ordained. Where we differ from determinists
>is that we believe that there is more than one "person" in the universe.

And this is both amazing and frustrating! For these determinists are so adamant
that they teach the orthodox Trinity, and yet they deny this vital aspect of
Trinitarian dogma! They deny that historical fact that the very _reason_ the
Fathers fought so hard to defend the life-saving dogma was _precisely_ because
this is how we understand what it is to be a person, not just an individual.


>Although God is sovereign, He allows many of these "independent"
>persons to go against His will.

Such as Calvinists and other determinists;)

> But even these "independent" persons
>are held in existence by God.

YEs, and they fail to realize that God does so in order to give them more time
to repent. But just like those Paul mentions, they despise this generosity, and
turn it into a cause for their own greater condemnation:

Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and
patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you
to repentance? But by your hard and impenitent heart you are
storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's
righteous judgment will be revealed. For he will render to every
man according to his works: (Rom 2:4-6 RSVA)

If only they would finally understand this and repent before it is too late!


--
---------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
quidquid boni habet, tribuat illi a quo factus est.
(St. Augustine, Ser. 96)

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