Matthew Johnson wrote:
> In article <115.27.15.05.952560000@srcbs.org>, gpatton@bayou.com
says...
> >
>
>
> >> Robert, I found this post to be very informative, BUT, I do not
> >> agree that anyone except Jesus led a sinless life.
> >
> >How about this?
>
> Close, but not quite.
>
> >As Job was not sinless, it seems that he could be a sinner, yet
still
> >be a "perfect and an upright man".
>
> If you hadn't used the word 'sinner', I could agree that you have a
plausible
> interpretation. For 'sinner' does not mean "anyone who every sinned
at least
> once", but "someone who habitually sins". And that Job was certainly
not, nor
> could he have been called 'perfect' if he were.

So if Job 1:8 is correct, then Job was not a sinner?

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered F4 my
servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an
upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? (KJV)

>
> >So sin does not necessarily
> >keep a man from being a "perfect" man.
>
> Here you are close. And there is a Proverb that supports you. It is a
pity it is
> not more well known. It is:
>
> For a righteous man falleth seven times,
> and riseth up again, but the wicked stumble under adversity. (Pro
24:16 JPS)

I am not at all surprised that scripture supports a statement of mine.
;-)


> So THAT is the difference between the righteous and us! The righteous
get up
> again.
>
> >Therefore, man must be designed to be a sinner, and it is his nature
to sin,
>
> These conclusions are unacceptable. For God did not make us sinners.
Even the
> devil played only an ancillary role in this.

I think the story says it were a reptile (ranther than a devil).


> In other words, neither nature nor nature's God made us sinners, we
do. Again,
> as the Proverb says:
>
> The foolishness of man perverteth his way;
> and his heart fretteth against the LORD. (Pro 19:3 JPS)

Let me see, so natrue did not make us sinners but we are by nature
sinners?

> Which, as Keil & Delitzsch pointed out, it paraphrased well in the
Wisdom of Ben
> Sirach as Sir 15:11-20 of which I copy only the first few verses
here:
>
> Do not say, "Because of the Lord I left the right way";
> for he will not do what he hates.
> Do not say, "It was he who led me astray";
> for he had no need of a sinful man.
> The Lord hates all abominations,
> and they are not loved by those who fear him.
> It was he who created man i