Directory of official and near-official Iowa community web sites.

Contains news items, FAQs about membership, events in various cities by category, a listing of grants, and workshops.

Classifieds, business directory and community information for southwestern Iowa cities.

Stephen M. Adams wrote:

> Bart Goddard writes:
> >adamst@no.spam wrote:
> >
> >> Are you admitting, then, that 'faith without works is dead' and that
> >> such workless faith can not save? In other words, there is no salvation
> >> without faith AND works?
> >>
> >> That is quite clearly what James says.
> >
> >No, you're not being clear here. The distinction between
> >"Faith alone" (Salvation comes only through faith) and
> >"Faith alone" (Faith is never by itself, but is accompanied
> >by works) is being blurred. God is in the details, and the
> >details here are the prepositions. Does "by" mean "by
> >means of" or "next to"?
> >
> >The issue here is whether James is saying that works accomplish
> >some portion of salvation or that saving faith is always
> >accompanies by works.
>
> Let me ask this - since you seem to agree that works will always
> accompany saving faith, are those works *voluntary*?

Yes. A goat that has been transformed into a sheep will act according
to its new sheep nature.

What a goat cannot do is transform itself into a sheep, either by will
or deed. That change must come from above.

> Can man fail or refuse to do them??

Sure. While we have been transformed, our transformation is not yet
complete.

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Bob Felts wrote:
> Gary McNees wrote:
>
>
>>Bart Goddard wrote:
>>
>>>gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>If, on one hand, we can't obey
>>>>>the law, then we can not receive salvation by believing.
>>>>
>>>>I must disagree. We can believe, for God enables us to do so.
>>>
>>>
>>>Which means that we must first be regenerated before we can
>>>believe. What else could "enabling" mean here?
>>
>>I don't agree. One can be "enabled" to do a thing which he refuses
>>to do.
>
>
> Then salvation is the end result of the act of a man's will.

No, it is not. Man can will to not receive it, but can only will to
believe in Christ under God's drawing power. (No man can come to me
except the Father draw him.) Thus even his believing is by God's grace.
Salvation is not "out of" a man's will. IT is by the power of God. Faith
itself does not save anyone, it is merely the means God uses to give us
salvation. No man would ever will to come to Christ unless God first
drew him. In fact, no one would ever even seek God, were it not for the
fact that God first seeks us.