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Matthew Johnson wrote:
> In article , Robert Sutherland
> says...

>
>
>>A human being has a moral right to what he or she needs by nature in
>>order to fulfill his or her duty to God to lead a good human life.
>
>
> That reminds me _so_ much of Aquinas I am tempted to ask for the exact citation
> from the Summa;)
>

To both Robert and Matthew, the above is almost the very
OPPOSITE to what Reformed theology and Calvinism teach,
and I think, Bart teaches, but I not sure about him.

They claim that God has the moral, just, and whatever
RIGHT to keep from all men these needs. And in fact,
they teach that He purposely keeps all men from these
things (except for a certain small caste which cannot
be changed.)


Gary

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Gary McNees wrote:

> > Why do you imagine you know what Jesus said? It's not really _Jesus'_
> > words you're repeating, is it?
>
> Yes. The evidence that the words of Jesus are recorded in Scripture
> is far stronger than that you wrote the above sentence.

Dear Gary,

I am delighted to hear it. Can you please list the evidence you have
in mind?

Perhaps you can tell me what the earliest evidence is of each gospel
- who first quotes from them or mentions them by name? 'Cause see,
Gary, I don't know of that happening till well into the second century.
There were Christians writing before ~ 130 Gary, but none of them
quote or mention our modern
chosen-by-Catholic-priests-in-the-fourth-century gospels. If our
gospels did exist before then Gary, there is not _evidence_ they did.

But go ahead, please list the evidence you have in mind.


> > You're really quoting words written
> > decades later by someone:
> > -- who doesn't give his name,
> > -- who never claims to have met Jesus and
> > -- who never claims to have been a witness to the events.
>
> It would be nice if you hadn't snipped what you are referring to.
> Isn't it kinda stupid to write as you have written here? I think
> it is.

You do not understand the point Gary. The gospel writers _never_ give
their names, claim to have met Jesus, or to have been there themselves.
These points are true for _any_ of the gospels' "quotations" of Jesus.


> > Can I ask, besides Jesus', are there other "quotations" recorded
> > decades later by anonymous writers who never claim to have met the
> > speaker and who never claim to have been within ten miles of the actual
> > events, are there other "quotations" like that that you