> > >Whatever the case the Bible says that nobody had gone to heaven
> > > prior to 33 c.e.
> >
> > >The Bible says nothing of the kind.
> >
> > Sure it does. John 3:13.
>
> Let's read it again putting the Greek verb tenses into English:
>
> No one has ever, by their own action and power, ascended into heaven
> except the one who, by His own action and power, descended from
heaven.
>
> What this verse clearly demonstrates is Jesus' majesty, power, and
> ability. It does not indicate that no one has ever been taken into
> heaven.

I can think of no usage of something or someone "ascending" if not by
its own power or volition, or talked about passively by design. Over
the weekend, I have been trying to think of even one example, and I
cannot. Anyone? The statement seems pretty clear.

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DDBible wrote:
> I have NEVER seen an Arian every come close to meeting any argument
> against the Trinity.
>
> "Arian"? You trinitarians are a hoot. I'd say that someone that rejects
> the trinity is a Christian. I have NEVER seen a trinitarian present an
> argument for the trinity based solely on Bible versus. Everytime you
> point out a glaring fallacy in their position they resort to philosophy
> to explain it away.

Maybe it got lost in the shuffle last time I posted, but what did you
think about the fact that Jesus Christ calls himself by the same name God
does?

In Exodus 3.14, the translators of the LXX render "I am that I am" as "I
am the one who is," and the exact same Greek is seen in Revelation.

-Ethan

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Bob Felts wrote:
> Gary McNees wrote:
>
>
>>bimms@juno.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But a true Biblical understanding would notice two things:
>>>1. First, a non-regenerated person is free to do evil, and does so with
>>>a vengeance, so much so that
>>>the theoretical option of doing good never occurs and has never
>>>occurred in the entire history of man.
>>
>>Why o why do people like so much to contradict Scripture?
>>
>>Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto
>>your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give
>>good things to them that ask him?
>>
>
>
> Who says that it is good for an evil person to give a good gift?

If an