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In article <090.36.14.05.368829000@srcbs.org>, basicallyblues says...
>
>
>
>Stephen Adams wrote:
>
>>I'm not Matthew, but the answer is, catholic yes, Roman, no. The
>>books of the OT that Protestants call "Apocrypha" or
>"Deuterocanonical"
>>are accepted by the vast majority of Christians in the world, Roman
>>Catholic & Orthodox. The books were removed by the radical reformers.
>
>
>Well here's some arguments against their inclusion in the canon:

So you say. But upon further review, we find that they are _not_ 'arguments',
just unsupported assertions with a generous sprinkling of nonsense disguised as
history.

>
>While in some cases they have certain historical value, any claim for
>canonicity on the part of these writings is without any solid
>foundation.

Here is an unsupported (and unsupportable) assertion...

> The evidence points to a closing of the Hebrew canon
>following the writing of the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Malachi in
>the fifth century B.C.E.\

Followed immediately by some nonsense disguised as history. No, 'Blue', there is
NO EVIDENCE THAT SUCH A CANON EVEN EXISTED THAT EARLY! Not among the Jews, nor
among anyone else. The Jews did not close their Canon until _after_
Christiantiy. And they seem to have done it _in reaction_ to Christianity.

> The Apocryphal writings were never included in
>the Jewish canon of inspired Scriptures and do not form part of it
>today.

WHAT 'Canon'? They did not _have_ a Canon back then. But they _did_ translate
all four books of Maccabees into Greek, and also Judith and Esther and
Ecclesiasticus and the Wisdom of Solomon and Tobit. And they way they _used_
these books is hard to distinguish from the way they used the Kethubim.

>The first-century Jewish historian Josephus shows the recognition given
>only to those few books (of the Hebrew canon) viewed as sacred,
>stating:
>
> "We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with
>each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two
>and twenty [the equivalent of the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures
>according to modern division], and contain the record of all time."
>He thereafter clearly shows an awareness of the existence of Apocryphal
>books and their exclusion from the Hebrew canon by adding: "From
>Artaxerxes to our own time the complete history has been written, but
>has not been deemed worthy of equal credit with the earlier records,
>because of the failure of the exact succession of the
>prophets."-Against Apion, I, 38, 41 (8).

And when did he write this? AFTER Christianity. So this does not support you. On
the contrary: this is a very LATE witness to the existence of a Canon among the
Jews, and it tells us NOTHING about how long it ha