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Gary McNees wrote:

> "Bob Felts" wrote in message
> news:154.10.10.05.159689000@srcbs.org...
> >
> >
> > Gary McNees wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >
> > > > The free willer says that the "Calvinist" God is a monster because
> > > > He saves some and damns others according to His own sovereign
> > > > choices, independent of human will or effort. "It isn't fair" is
> > > > what the argument boils down to (but who defines fair?)
> > >
> > > God. What is fair is defined by God in Scripture.
> > >
> >
> > So just where, exactly, does Scripture say that it isn't fair for God to
> > create objects of wrath, devoted to destruction?
>
> So just where, exactly, does Scripture say that it isn't fair for God to
> rape, pillage, steal, murder, curse, defame, purger, cause any crime, and
> do any other vile things?

You didn't answer the question. You _assume_, based upon some
definition of "good" (that you haven't produced) that creating an object
of wrath, devoted to destruction, is in the same class as raping,
pillaging, murder, etc...

To pick one example, I can show you from Scripture that rape is not
good. I cannot show you from Scripture that creating an object of
wrath, devoted to destruction, is not good.

Do you have any other line of proof, other than your offended
sensibilities and circular reasoning?

>
> The answer is obvous! God says:
> Psalms 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all
> his works.
>
> If HE is GOOD to ALL, and He certainly is, then it is certain that God does
> NOT create objects of wrath.
>

Back to the "this offends my sensibilities" argument. That's not proof
as Bart so ably addressed in his response to you.


> > > > The non-free willer will say that the omnipotent omniscient "Arminiam"
> > > > God lets people damn themselves -- He does nothing.
> > >
> > > That is not true.
> > >
> >
> > You're right. What I should have said is that He does nothing
> > _effective_.
>
> What God does is certainly effective, for you are saved, aren't you?

The Calvinist God is certainly effective, but I was referring to your
god. It's really interesting the way you switch gods in the middle of
an argument. As soon as it is shown that your good leaves a little girl
drowing at the bottom of the pool, refusing to jump in and save her
(since that would be a violation of her free will) you immediately take
flight to the Calvinist God.

Deal with the issue of the little girl at the bottom of the pool with
your god