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Gary McNees wrote:

> "Bob Felts" wrote in message
> news:139.59.11.05.201208000@srcbs.org...
> >
> >
> > Matthew Johnson wrote:
> >
> > > In article <138.48.09.05.240004000@srcbs.org>, Bart Goddard says...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >wrf3@stablecross.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Bart has ably refuted your "the Calvinist God is a demon" canard.
> > >
> > > No, he has done no such thing. All he can accomplish is to show that
> > > it is internally logically consistent. But that is a _long_ way off
> > > from refuting the claim, "the Calvinist God is a demon".
> > >
> >
> > The problem is that the argument that the free-willer's make to try to
> > make the Calvinist God a demon is the same argument that shows that the
> > free-willer's God is also demonic. So either the argument is wrong, or
> > God is a demon, regardless of which starting assumption is used.
>
> You have not been following the argument, at all.
>
> All of Bart's arguments amount to saying the there is no
> difference between God forcing people into hell, and them
> choosing to go there.
>

That isn't what Bart has been saying.

The free willer says that the "Calvinist" God is a monster because He
saves some and damns others according to His own sovereign choices,
independent of human will or effort. "It isn't fair" is what the
argument boils down to (but who defines fair?)

The non-free willer will say that the omnipotent omniscient "Arminiam"
God lets people damn themselves -- He does nothing. It's not unlike
watching a child drown in a swimming pool. After all, you told them to
not climb the fence, but they went and did it, anyway.

So what Bart has been saying is that the notion of free will does not
answer the problem of damnation. God has a PR problem, regardless of
which position is taken.

> I've answered everyone of them. None of them hold any water.
>

Well, let's see...

> If a person cannot understand that allowing a person the freedom to choose
> to go to hell and forcing him to "choose" hell are no different,

First, God does not "force" anyone to "choose" hell. They are, by their
nature, children of wrath.

Second, standing by when a person could be rescued is the problem you
haven't addressed.

> then they cannot understand that the God of Calvinism is demonic, (really
> much worse than demonic, for demons are but finite creatures - since the
> God of Calvinism is infinite, hence infinitely evil..)
>

Complaining about the Calvinist God doesn't help you,