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Stephen M. Adams wrote:

> wrf3@stablecross.com (Bob Felts) writes:
> >Stephen M. Adams wrote:
> >> wrf3@stablecross.com (Bob Felts) writes:
>
> >> >There were divisions in the Church long before the Protestants came
> >> >along, were there not?
> >>
> >> Yes, and the vast majority of them caused by private interpretation of
> >> Scripture without reference to the traditional teachings of the
> >> church.
> >
> >Let's go back to a post you made to s.r.c.b-s on 12/8/04, in which you
> >wrote to Matthew Johnson:
> >
> > I've read Augustine - and my reaction to things like "On
> > Predestination" were seminal in my discovery of the Orthodox
> > Church...
> >
> >You were not Orthodox, you became Orthodox, but you did so based upon
> >your evaluation of the evidence. So it seems to me that you used the
> >very principle you decry.
>
> I disagree. I didn't single-source my information and understanding.
> Rather, I looked to what the church taught from the earliest times.
> The Scriptures clearly say that the *Church* is the pillar and ground
> of the truth.
>

So? You still had to independently evaluate the evidence -- you had to
reach the decision that one particular branch of Christendom was
presenting the truth. In the end it came down to "I, Steve Adams, based
upon the evidence I've examined, have come to this particular
conclusion."

> >> >interpretation (or was that just a cover-up for politics?)
> >>
> >> "Politics" in the sense of the Bishop of Rome trying to impose his views
> >> on the rest of the church, and to change things to get his own advantage.
> >> But that said, it was the Pope reading Scripture (and claiming to be the
> >> sole interpreter of it) that was a major part of the issue. This is why
> >> some Orthodox commentators call the Pope "the first protestant."
> >
> >That's not the way they tell it. How is an outsider to judge between
> >the two of you?
>
> Simple - at each juncture, look at who changed their doctrine and went
> their own way, ignoring the teaching of the Church. Rome at numerous
> times invetned new doctrines and dogmas on her won, to suit her own
> purpose, and refused to listen to the tradition of the Church. It has
> gone so far that not only do they not listen to the whole church, but
> they no longer even submit to councils - after all, Pius IX proclaimed,
> and the church has not repudiated, that the Pope is not subject to any
> council. That right there is heresy.
>

Based upon your personal evaluation of the evidence.

> >> >> There is no way to tes