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In article <182.17.19.05.370092000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...

>Matthew Johnson wrote:

>> In article <180.02.20.05.765783000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...

>> >Matthew Johnson wrote:

>> >> In article <178.41.13.05.396198000@srcbs.org>, Bob Felts says...

>> >> >Matthew Johnson wrote:

>> >> [snip]

>> [snip]

>> >> > There are several places in Scripture which talks
>> >> >about God desiring/willing something that we know (at
>> >> >least, if we aren't universalists) doesn't happen in
>> >> >all cases.

>> >> True. That is why the Fathers -- and even the
>> >> Scholastics -- made the distinction between
>> >> "antecedent will" and "precedent will" of God.

>> >> If only you understood this distinction, you would
>> >> then also realize that no, it is NOT an "excellent
>> >> reason" for what you do and claim.

>> >I do understand the distinction.

>> No, you do not, as you make clear below:

>> > St. Thomas, for example, explains it this way,
>> >""Antecedent will is that by which God wills all to be
>> >saved; but when all the circumstances of this or that
>> >individual are considered, it is found to be good that
>> >all men should be saved; for it is good that he who
>> >prepares himself, and consents to it, should be saved;
>> >but not he who is unwilling and resists, etc. And this
>> >is called the consequent will, because it presupposes a
>> >foreknowledge of a man's deeds, not as a cause of the
>> >act of will, but as a reason for the thing willed and
>> >determined."

>> Why, thank you, Bob, for supplying the exact quote for
>> me. Pity you then _immediately_ proceeded to
>> misunderstand it.

>> >The problem with this is that it places the decision
>> >within man, which St. Paul plainly denies.

>> No, it does no such thing. Indeed: it sounds like you are
>> ignoring Aquinas's final sentence in your own citation!
>> Let me simplify it for you by breaking it up in to three
>> and making vague references specific: read it as:

>> This is called the 'consequent will'. It is not a
>> cause of the act of God's will. Instead, it is a
>> reason for the thing God willed and determined.

>> So you see, the decision is STILL within God, not within
>> man.

>Read it again, Matthew:

Not necessary. I already know where your error lies.

>"for it is good that HE WHO PREPARES HIMSELF AND CONSENTS
>TO IT, SHOULD BE SAVED".

Duh. But this does not imply what you think it does. See below.

>So the decision is God's, but it is based on human will or
>effort, which is what Paul flatly denies in Romans 9.

N