In post <581CED8F-8ED2-D2C0-
11C5-611FC02FB095@srcbs.org> Bart says:


> No. The verse doesn't give two aspects of faith,
> it gives the same aspect twice. The two clauses
> are restatements of each other.
>

"No."
A chance for you to manifest your scholarship
and knowledge, your command of reason and
logic...and the best you can come up with is "No".

The verse is quite clear; Hebrews 11:1,

"Now faith is
the assurance of things hoped for,
the conviction of things not seen." RSV

Your claim is unfounded and exclusive, an opinion
without merit.


> Things hoped for are not seen, so to say that faith
> is the assurance of things hoped for it's the same
> as saying it's the conviction of things not seen.
>

Again you put on display your own astonishing lack
of comprehension. The very author of Hebrews
rebuts your opinion. Had you bothered to read the
author's argument in chapter eleven you might have
discovered the futility of your position.


> So it turns out that what I said Scripture says is
> exactly what it says.
>

You said: "Conviction of things seen is not faith"

Your opinion is the epitome of an egocentric error of
denial, a blatant rejection of both Scripture and logic.

Unless and until you can demonstrate otherwise,
my argument stands.

2


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Bob Felts wrote:
>
> You don't understand what Israel is, then. Israel is the nation of
> _believers_, not people with a certain genetic predisposition. Read
> Romans 9:6, Romans 2:28-29, and Gal 3:7 & 3:29.
>
Sigh! I am sorry Bob, but I really have to say that it is you who does
not understand the significance of Israel or for that matter, the
economies of God.

Earlier someone wrote that Israel was God's elect. You trotted off to
Rom 9 in referring to Paul's statement that not all who are Abraham's
descendents are of Israel, assuming that this invalidated the statement
that Israel, as a nation, was God's elect. Well, it doesn't. Israel
primarily dealt with in the Jewish Testament as a unity -not always-
but most always. The covenants were made with Israel as a nation. To
dismiss this point is really to make absurd the Davidic and the
Palestinian covenants, not to mention the Mosaic Covenant which is
clearly never given to the Gentiles. To fail to understand the
"nephish" of Israel is to really fail to understand the basics of the