basicallyblues wrote:

> >Now, if the idea that Enoch did not die, is not harmonious with ones
> >theology, that person can just ignore it. No big deal. If one does not
> >like a story, skip it. To try to make a story come out different from
> >how it is written however, is pointlessness.
>
> Nothing to do with theology but scripture itself. Either you believe
> the Bible contradicts itself or you realize that Enoch being "taken" or
> "transferred" does not mean he didn't die.

The fallacy of the false dilemma. Those aren't the only two choices.

> John 3:13 plainly says that "no man has ascended to heaven be he that
> descended, the Son of Man"

In the Greek, Jesus is saying that no one has ascended by their own
direct action and power, except the one that came down by His own direct
action and power.

> So if Enoch was not in heaven where was he?

The place of the righteous dead.

> Hebrews 9:8 shows that the way into heaven was not open to anyone before
> Jesus.

All of heaven, or just a part? Where in Scripture does it say that the
Most Holy Place is equivalent to all of heaven?

> Is it not possible that Enoch did die?

Not according to the language of Scripture.

> Perhaps his life was mercifully cut short by God while he slept or was in
> a trance. Certainly there was some special circunstance about Enoch's
> death. Whatever the case the Bible says that nobody had gone to heaven
> prior to 33 c.e.

The Bible says nothing of the kind.

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Gary McNees wrote:

>
> God being sovereign does not mean that man cannot do that which
> God forbids, and which God does not will that he do.
>
Your error is defining "when." Prior to the fall man had the capacity
of the either or. But after he had shot himself in the head, he was
dead. How does a dead man choose?

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"Bob Felts" wrote in message
news:143.48.18.05.679865000@srcbs.org...
>
>
> Gary McNees wrote:
>
> > "Bob Felts" wrote in message
> > news:142.57.05.05.908121000@srcbs.org...
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary McNees wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Bob Felts" wrote in message
> > > > news:136.37.18.05.732718000@srcbs.org...