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lsenders@hotmail.com writes:
>Stephen M. Adams wrote:
>> wrf3@stablecross.com (Bob Felts) writes:
>> >I notice you didn't answers "lsenders" questions.
>>
>> There is no way to answer a straw-man argument directly. Not without
>> conceding something that we will not concede (because it is not
>true).
>> Namely, that we are 'arminian' which we are categorically not.
>>
>> Since Loren has created an either/or false dilemma, there is no way
>> to answer his question directly. When he's willing to admit that
>> there is a 3rd way, then we can have a fruitful discussion.
>
>It is not a "straw-man" whether you are of the Pelagian form known as
>Arminainism or some other form. And dispite your denial, it is truly
>an either/or dilemma.
Another Calvinist cussword - Pelagian. But alas, we are NOT Pelagians
(or even "semi-Pelagians") for we reject and declare as heresy the
teachings of Pelageus. Here are the teachings (at least in synopsis
form):
- Adam would have died whether or not he sinned;
- Adam sin harmed only Adam, not the human race;
- Men are born in the same state Adam was before the fall;
- The human race does not die through Adam's sin;
You SLANDER and LIBEL us by making these false accusations. Please stop.
The "third way" is NOT a corruption of some Western idea, nor is it some
reaction to Calvinism. It is the preservation of the original faith of
the Church. The difference starts with the state of man in the garden
and the notion of original sin. The Western corruption of these ideas
is responsible for the doctrines of Calvinism that turn God into a monnter
not worthy or worship.
For the West, the incarnation is, in effect, a response by God to the fall.
In line with the Eastern teaching on the fall, the incarnation is simply a
part of God's plan from the beginning - it was neither a response to the
fall nor necessitated by the fall. Even if Adam & Eve had NOT fallen, the
incarnation is STILL necessary to bring God and Man into union - and to lead
to salvation (ie theosis).
It's a third way.
>Dispute the 5 points made in regards to their being antithetical in
>nature. The only "3rd" way is to produce yet another variant of
>semi-Pelagianism. That is all.
Flat out false. We start with a completely different premise.
>Unless you can do better than all the
>books and all the apologetical lectures I have read or listened to, I
>will not accept a "3rd way." You must provide and prove it. Is that
>not the reasoning behind this forum?
You have not read very much then. I suggest the following, relatively
short work:
"Evil and the God