Alaska AFL-CIO

Federation of union locals in Alaska.

Alaska AFL-CIO

Federation of union locals in Alaska.

Alaska Labor Links

Links to online labor sites.

Alaska Labor Links

Links to online labor sites.

Alaska State Employees Association

Represents Alaska state government employees. Affiliated with AFSCME as Local 52.

Alaska State Employees Association

Represents Alaska state government employees. Affiliated with AFSCME as Local 52.

ASEA Anchorage

Anchorage chapter of ASCFME/ASEA local 52.

ASEA Anchorage

Anchorage chapter of ASCFME/ASEA local 52.

NALC 4319

National Association of Letter Carriers local union in Anchorage, Alaska.

NALC 4319

National Association of Letter Carriers local union in Anchorage, Alaska.

"Bart Goddard" wrote in message
news:CC35F14B-3B9C-E5D4-7C9F-DB29AD841D5E@srcbs.org...
> gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Bart, perhaps instead of "free will," or "robot" we
should
> > use self-determination?
>
> You and Matthew can battle it out over semantics and
terminology.
> My continuing point is: no matter what you call it, you
can't
> have it precede grace. If it's called
"self-determination",
> you still can't save yourself (or activate God's grace) by
> exercise of "self-determination".

I would never think that it would.

Did you seem my post which contained:

"There is no cooperation possible. The nature of the work of
regeneration forbids any possible human assistance. As a
child in natural birth is conceived and born without any
volition on his part, so the child of God receives the new
birth apart from any volition on his part. In the new birth,
of course, the human will is not opposed to regeneration and
wills by divine grace to believe, but this act itself does
not produce new birth." p. 118. ST vol VI.

"The important truth to be observed in all of this is that,
though the divine persuasion be limitless, it still remains
persuasion, and so when a decision is secured for Christ, in
the individual he exercises his own will apart form even the
shadow of constraint. The divine invitation still is true
that "whosoever will may come." Chafer, ST, vol. VII, p.
136.

Gary



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In article <116.34.21.05.826521000@srcbs.org>, Gary McNees says...
>

[snip]

>Matthew, thanks for the info. BUT are there many possibilities for the
>two verses wherein God describes Job?
>
>I looked briefly at 15 versions (standard accepted versions) and they
>all said basically the same thing about God's appraisal of Job.
>
>That Job might be mistaken about many things is no surprise. But what
>Bob says amounts to saying that God didn't know what HE was talking about.

Well, no, it is not quite that simple. Nobody doubts that in the time frame when
teh statement was made, Job was perfect. But many readers think he lost that
perfection the moment he opened his mouth in chapter 3 and "cursed the day he
was born". For his words _sound_ blasphemous. But in reality, they are not.
Learning to get past the appearance to the reality can be quite difficult!


--
---------------------------
Subudcat se sibi ut haereat Deo
quidquid boni habet, tribuat illi a quo factus est.
(St. Augustine, Ser. 96)

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