<<
gkmcnees@comcast.net

I think that we are defining "ordain" in different ways. It
is certain
that Pilate sinned and knew it when he did what he did, but
what
he did was in accord within the PERMISSIVE will of God. It
would
not have happened unless God permitted it to happen.

I don't define all that God "ordains" as being in accord
with His
law or revealed will. Without the concept of the permissive
will
of God, we have God being the author of sin, and all evil.
Whereas
man is the cause of all evil.

It was God's will that Christ be crucified for us. BUT He
accomplished
this by permiting evil men to do what they freely choose to
do. He
DID NOT cause these men to sin. He used their sin to
accomplish
His perfect will.

Gary
>>

I agree with this 100%. God is the ultimate causa effective and causa
finalis of the whole world including every single event. Nothing happens
w/o His (primary or permissive) will and everything fits to His will.

The oly thing what I want to see clearly is the "It was God's will that
Christ be crucified for us". Is it primary or secondary?

St Thomas Aquinas says: (Summa Theologica Part III Qustion 1 Article 3)

Hence, since everywhere in the Sacred Scripture the sin of the first man
is assigned as the reason of Incarnation, it is more in accordance with
this to say that the work of Incarnation was ordained by God as a remedy
for sin; so that, had sin not existed, Incarnation would not have been.

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/400103.htm

Thomas Aquinas claims that there is overwhelming Scriptural evidence for
this. Could you or anyone help me to point to this evidence, especially
from Matthew which was written to Jews who understood the "who is God?"
similarly as we understand it. For the pagans the Incarnation itself did
not meant more than if a King falls for a poor girl and has a child
from her as Zeus did several times. (in the “God - King – poor” line for
us and for the Jews the big distance is between God and the King, for
the pagans that is just so-so distance, the kings being gods or the
descendants of gods).

In my view God created the word for the incarnation, but since He could
not be incarnated w/o giving free will to the humanity He permitted the
death of Jesus Christ as a consequence of the original sin and the
shameful death as a consequence of our personal sins.

laszlo


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