basicallyblues wrote:

> [BF wrote:]
> Have you considered that it's because some of us have dealt with JW
> doctrine and arguments for many years, and that you aren't saying
> anything that we haven't heard many, many times before?
>
> goes both ways.

Oh, I didn't doubt that for a moment. This argument has been going on
for almost two thousand years.

> I've heard the very same trinitarian arguments 100s of
> times. In fact I know what will be said before any of you say it. So
> this makes me wonder why we are even doing this? Is it for lurkers?

Partly. C. S. Lewis once said, "I pray because I can't help myself. ...
It doesn't change God, it changes me."

There was one character in the Bible who commented on how he could not
but speak the words God have given him. But, in my advancing senility,
I don't remember who it was.

And I do it because I want to learn something. I have been, and will
be, changed by digging into the Word.

> At first I wanted to shake all of you from the grip the false trinity
> doctrine has on you but I doubt that will happen.

I do to. For not only is the DoT arrived at intellectually, it is also
arrived at personally.

> And you will never convince me into believing in a nonsensical trinity.

I agree completely. Neither Bart, nor Steve, nor Matthew, nor I will
get you to change your mind. But "with God, all things are possible".

> [BF wrote:]
> I've heard this all before for the last umpteen _years_. Good grief, I
> bet I could make your arguments for you -- and do a better job.
>
> A lack of humility will not draw anyone to you.

Just stating a simple fact. Wasn't trying to brag.

> Besides I don't believe you.

That't the problem with this group. Everyone things they know what's
going on inside the other person, and what they see is dark, dark, dark.
Even if, on the off chance someone gets it right, I personally think
that's not a topic for discussion. Argue the Scriptures, not the
alleged motives of the people doing the arguing.

> Being that nobody has successfully refuted the following points:
>

Define "success". Getting you to change your mind? You've already
stated that this won't happen, so it looks like the game has already
been rigged.

> 1) transfiguration "vision" was a supernatural one

I don't understand how you've phrased this one. Do you mean that Moses
and Eligah were only a "vision" and, therefore, not real?

> 2) Enoch and Elijah both died and did not go to heaven
> 3) the Trinity in which all of you now believe did not exist prior to
> the 3rd century
> 4) trinity doctrine is not in the Bible

We've been over this all before. You up for one more round?