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peter.gibbs@charter.net wrote:

> I submit that the story told by the gospels is about Jesus' OWN PEOPLE
> turning against him.

To say that the Gospels are about this people or that people or
about this people's actions or that people's actions is to
misdirect the Gospels off of Jesus Himself and onto something else.

The Gospel's are about Jesus and His work. Everything else in
all of Scripture either points to or flows out of "Jesus Christ
and Him crucified."



> So, why does Athenasius twist the story this way? The shift from "us
> Jews" to "those Jews"

No. It's just your reading English connotations into something
which was written in Latin. Athenasius wasn't present at the
crucifixion, so if he said "us", he'd be lying.

Bart

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basicallyblues wrote:

>
> >You are simply out of league. You do not understand the issue being
> >debated.
>
> Your arrogance is almost sociopathic. I understand the issue much
more
> than you.
>
Yet again you provide no reply to the point. Just more character
assignation.
>
> > God has no needs. He created out of love- not need. His first
> creation
> > (the archangel Michael who later became Jesus)
>
> >"Chapter and verse please," to quote a previous JfW poster.
>
> I'll do this out of courtesy as your arrogance is annoying.
>
> Rev. 3:14

Rev. 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The
Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of
God, says this:

??? The angel of the church is being requested to write what Jesus is
stating. How can you confuse this. Jesus is the One doing the talking
as developed in Chapter one. Next.
> Col. 1:15

Col. 1:15 And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of
all creation.

Ummm, unless my eyes are failing me, I don't see any mention of
Michael.

BTW, the context is the first to be reborn. First born from the dead.
In resurrection He will be the first born among many brethren, which is
the Church, His body.
>
> Prov. 8:22
>
Prov. 8:22 "The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before
His works of old.
>
> John 6:57
>
John 6:57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the
Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me.
>
NONE of these passages have explicit statements concerning the point.
You are making an implicit case and as already noted, you do not a