Stephen M. Adams wrote:
> >Being that I've decisively shown the "trinity" isn't in the Bible
nor
> >believed by Christians prior to the 3rd Century I think that
qualifies
> >the trinity as "pagan".
>
> But you haven't dones this decisively. It's based on a fallacy.

> >It is true, they speak of the Father, Son, and . . . holy Spirit,
but not as
> >co-equal, not as one numerical essence, not as Three in One, in any
sense
> >now admitted by Trinitarians. The very reverse is the fact."
>
> This is flat out fallacy! I cited above several authors who say
exactly
> this. Go back and read the quotes from Tertullian, Hippolytus,
Ignatuis,
> etc. It's all there. Cited and referenced.
>
> The Church Fathers *clearly* taught that Jesus was God. Ante-Nicea,
> at Nicea and post Nicea.

Have a look at this collection of citations from all the 2nd century
fathers, on the incarnation:



It was written for another purpose, but it certainly indicates that
Jesus was God to them. In fact the common error of the time is, not
that he was not God, but to question whether he was really human
(docetism, gnosticism). Different ages, different errors.

You say that the doctrine of the trinity is not in the bible. But the
bible is not a theology textbook. What it does teach is:

1. There is only one God.
2. Jesus is not the Father.
3. Jesus is 'one with' the Father.
4. Jesus is God (worshipped, threatened with stoning for making the
claim, prayed to).

Out of that, I would have thought something like the Trinity absolutely
inevitable. Tertullian certainly thought himself to be reiterating an
apostolic teaching -- that he was the first to use a Latin word is
because he was the first to use Latin in the church!

You do not explain why expounding the bible in this sense is pagan.
Tertullian again is the last person to adopt *anything* from paganism.
"What has Athens to do with Jerusalem? ... away with a bastardised
Christianity!"

All the best,

Roger Pearse

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Jim@zerospam.mk.net wrote:


>> >> > 1Peter:3:8: Finally, be ye all of one mind,
>> >>
>> >> This isn't the church, it's a usenet forum. This
>> >> verse doesn't apply.
>> >>
>> >
>> > you aren't part of the church?
>>
>> I am. Perhaps you are. But the "this" I'm refering to
>> is this forum, not myself. Do you think this forum,