gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:

> That is hardly the point. In the one case God unilaterally
> damns. ....



> AND this is what you claim is no worse that God making man
> such that he can freely choose to either be damned or to
> be saved! If it is not obvious which system puts God in a
> better light, then nothing is obvious.

The reason it's not obvious is because even in your free will
system, God is 1. foreknowing and 2. the Creator. Put all
the free will you want into the system and sugar coat it
at will by emphasising the phrase "merely allows", but it
doesn't change the fact that God knows 100% that this
particular being He is creating is going to hell, and
creates him anyway.


>> > In your system, those who are supposedly saved can BE LOST!
>> > Since you have been vocal in your denial of OSAS, I take this
>> to be
>> > true.
>>
>> I told you this recently: I haven't denied OSAS. It sure
>> makes me think you're not reading my posts before you respond.
>
> Then I apologize. I thought I had read some of your posts
> to Loren on the "other side." But I take your word for it.
> Or are you just being obfucatious? Are saying that you do
> not DENY OSAS, but that you also do not AFFIRM it?

I don't even define "OSAS". People used the word "saved"
in so many ways, who know what is meant by "OSAS." I would
deny "once converted always converted." On the other hand,
since I, more than most, take an eternal view of things,
the "saved" are already in heaven in the eternal now and
can view their own past as present. If they are saved in
the eternal now, then the temporal "plane" is fixed. (And
the trite phrase "if they end up damned, then they were
never saved to begin with" applies, muddled definitions
not withstanding.)



>> > You may object, "Well, then, where is your 'free will?'"
>>
>> Even more, I might object that you ascribe non-regenerate man
>> more freedom than regenerate man. In stark contrast to
>> Scripture saying that the truth will set us free.
>
> Well, I would claim that there is at least ONE thing that unregenerate
> man can do, and that is come to Christ, because God has promised
> that He will draw him to Christ.

Which just means you're still denying the plain words of
Scripture:

Romans 14:23 ... and everything that does not come from
faith is sin.

In your system, the unregenerate commits a sin by exercising
his free will and choosing Christ. Paul flatly denies this
(blatant logical contradiction) and show that faith precedes
_everything_ man does. And a man with faith (surely) is
regenerate.